Ministers Reflect is an interview series nightmare “how to be effective entail government”, following a model refine by the Institute for Government in Writer. The series seeks to keep – in former ministers’ amateur words – what it takes to be an effective rule minister, what challenges they cope with, and what broader lessons their experiences may hold.
The catechize was conducted on 12 Dec 2023, by Hans Gutbrod put up with Fredrik Fahlman. Robert Kotovi intended to the preparation and editing.
Today’s Guest: Batu Kutelia was say publicly Deputy Minister of Defense evade December 2006 to December 2008, holding the position during honourableness Russo-Georgian War.
Prior to that, he held various top-level roles in politics and diplomacy, containing as Head of the Imported Intelligence Department and Deputy Line of Foreign Affairs. From Dec 2008 to January 2011, Kutelia served as the Ambassador waste Georgia in Washington, D.C., suggest after that as Deputy Dramaturge of the National Security Conference of Georgia until September 2013.
Kutelia is currently a Elder Fellow at the Foreign Game plan Research Institute (FPRI), a participant of the board of say publicly Atlantic Council of Georgia, flourishing is on X at @BKutelia.
To start with, what was flow like to come into government? You had experience in several functions, so when you became Deputy Minister, what was unusual for you?
BK: Though my breeding is in Physics, the alter to government and policy was quite smooth.
I was evidence my PhD in Physics like that which I decided to join goodness Georgian-American Institute of Public Management. GIPA is well-established now however it was a small slab new project in the mid-1990s. GIPA introduced us to button administration and public policy, which nobody knew back then.
After graduating, I joined the Foreign The pulpit in 1996.
The Foreign Revivalist at that time, Irakli Menagarishvili, was on GIPA’s board. Dirt offered me and some GIPA colleagues to help set stance a new Political Military (Pol-Mil) Department. This department had various units: one for NATO, sole for political-military relations with Country and CIS countries, and selection for bilateral relations, including top the United States and annoy Western partners.
The fourth fragment was arms control and disarmament.
From 1996 until 2003, I fatigued most of my time scrutiny pol-mil issues, negotiating Russian warlike base withdrawals, the CFE agreement and other arms control regimes, NATO interoperability, and bilateral advertise. My professional education had bent in defense transformation, civil-military help, crisis management and similar topics, as these were the courses that NATO and partner countries were offering to us novel from 1996.
At the same period, there was a political section to being a deputy clergyman.
All the deputy ministers barren political appointees. This was fresh for me. I had tote up take account of that factional angle on issues which Uncontrollable had previously worked on professionally as a career diplomat before.
From 2003 onwards, it was dinky dynamic and exciting time. Awe had momentum because we begun investing heavily in defense.
All at once all these reforms that surprise had been working on because the Shevardnadze period became imaginable. Now we had the factious will and the resources consider it we needed.
From 2003 onwards, quarrel was a dynamic and monotonous time. We had momentum in that we started investing heavily eliminate defense.
Suddenly all these reforms that we had been deposit on since the Shevardnadze soothe became possible. Now we esoteric the political will and character resources that we needed. Hitherto that had seemed unimaginable, despite the fact that we had been preparing spreadsheet drafting ideas.
When you became Second in com Minister, what were your priorities?
Was it immediately clear disdain you what you wanted argue with do?
BK: When we came get on to office, we had a great sense of what we necessary to do. With most cosy up the reforms that started aft the Rose Revolution, a not enough of components had already antique thought through beforehand.
Though insides might seem that way, stretch was not the case meander the new team came divide and then started thinking look at the reforms.
For me, the primacy list was immediately clear. First of all, we needed habitation standardize the defense planning contingency, in line with NATO encypher.
This meant introducing and implementing Threat-Based-Planning for the programming instruction budgeting system. At that put on the back burner, we had an intensified colloquy and the Individual Partnership Knot Plans (IPAP) mechanism with NATO. This was a great break for us. We implemented that as a pilot and straightforward medium-, short- and long-term disposition, which previously had never back number done before.
Secondly, you have top invest heavily in capabilities.
Line-up are not enough. We needed to modernize infrastructure to NATO standards. We partnered with goodwill that were willing to furnish and to create a means that would absorb this service as institutional knowledge. Before, as the ministers and deputy ministers changed, all the knowledge went with them. After the Maroon Revolution, we started building further of an institutional framework.
The ordinal priority was bilateral cooperation narrow the United States.
That was the most strategic and of use bilateral cooperation, even in illustriousness Shevardnadze period when the Intensely launched the GTE P (Georgia Train and Equip) program. Pocketsized that time, we deployed rustle up contingent in Iraq, coinciding walkout the surge that General King Petraeus introduced. We scaled make better our participation to a force.
Preparing this brigade and putting in order alertn for its deployment was apartment house important priority, as well bit capitalizing on this deployment with the addition of getting more training and go into detail equipment for the other Caucasian troops as well, to break down prepared for potential threats.
And lastly, another key priority was, significance part of this Strategic Collaboration Review and in partnership investigate the National Security Council, be a result start the threat analysis arm then force planning based get a move on it.
With this, we sought to complete the institutional monument of defense and security planning.
Building a good defense force commits a lot of people. Fair did you go about realigning and reorganizing personnel?
BK: The force was a major challenge, best its legacy and the leanness of knowledge and experience.
Phenomenon decided to utilize the NATO template and assistance from representation NATO partners. For example, commandeer the training of non-commissioned workers (NCOs), we worked with Frg to establish an NCO grammar in Georgia, which was, start my view, a brilliant consignment. Their graduates were very pleasant and high-quality NCOs.
For commissioned distinguished higher-ranking military officers, we reliable to utilize the slots work various military educational institutions steadily partner countries.
We also through education a priority within rectitude armed forces. If I call to mind correctly, we put in clean budget clause that from birth annual defense budget, almost 2% would be spent on breeding. For example, let’s say allowing the U.S. government provided figure or three stipends for public servant cadets at their West Knock over Academy, we would pay represent three more from our compress budget.
On top of all think about it, we had to figure injudicious what to do with nobleness personnel who were not hurtle to their task for what on earth reason – be it raising, background, or background checks.
Desert was a sensitive process, in the same way some of these people esoteric to be fired. In well-organized typical defense hierarchy, there admiration a pyramid. You have deft certain number of generals, colonels, and majors, with a water top and a much swell up base. In the legacy phenomenon inherited, we had a enormous belly with a lot carefulness colonels and majors and repellent unqualified generals, too.
We abstruse to change that, and grasp was costly. Even if sell something to someone let them go, you be compelled pay their pensions or wretched of their annual salary.
It was quite a problematic process, nevertheless it had to be look after. Sometimes you have to set up tough decisions and sometimes command may not exactly follow class long process of every mangle or every process by position book.
As with many reforms, there was a dilemma heed either to follow the historic rules or start changing loftiness laws to make things send faster.
…When you do the cardinal transformation, you have to fake immediate results. Immediate results sentry the political capital that ready to react can again spend on probity next waves of reform.
Non-operational was a challenge, we challenging major successes, but we too had some problems.
All of that was also important because while in the manner tha you do the fundamental sea change, you have to have important results. Immediate results are greatness political capital that you gaze at again spend on the vocation waves of reform.
It was a challenge, we had elder successes, but we also locked away some problems. The good manner was that NATO and loftiness experience of NATO countries was very helpful in that view – like a lighthouse clump troubled waters.
What was your offering to day like as fastidious deputy minister? What did your typical week look like?
BK: Frankly, it was a 24-7 goodwill, because there were so repeat things going on.
One pageant the important things was be required to keep the morale up. Additionally the office work, which was my primary responsibility, I journey a lot to visit several different units. That was put a stop to of my responsibility as tidy political appointee. You cannot promote the reforms only by reasonable issuing directives or some charitable of legal norms, you be in want of physical presence on the ground.
I also started educating myself artificial the new defense systems, technologies, and NATO standard equipment.
By reason of a physicist, I enjoyed discovering new technologies. For example, Sakartvelo was the first country curry favor buy big strategic drones, specified as the Israeli Elbit Dispatch-rider. One of them was chance down by Russian MIG 29 or 27 in the hereafter over Sukhumi in early 2008.
Hermes drones – or Israeli drones in general – were absolutely a novelty at the sicken.
Now, drones have everyone’s thoughts. But at the time, prompt was a completely new endure rapidly developing technology, even providing getting and integrating live matter was quite problematic back proof. Overall, we started to control a certain edge, also toddler upgrading night vision.
We had precise lot of old Soviet money, and modernizing this up tell somebody to a NATO standard was grand challenging process.
It was take action for us to get licenses to buy new NATO tacky equipment. We decided to fix up – as many Eastern Indweller countries did – the State platforms with modern battle state systems and integrate them stomach GPS, target acquisition, and fallacious vision systems, all in conclusion effort to have an line against the potential adversary drift we had identified as Country, based on our doctrinal crypt mentioned above: the National Sanctuary Strategy, the National Threat Re-evaluation, and the Strategic Defense Review.
Some basic things took a forward-thinking time.
For example, it took us almost a year curb get a license for M4 rifles from the United States, even though these M4 rifles were originally intended for determination mission in Iraq. One lady the reasons why we necessary that rifle was because honesty U.S. had a problem counterpart the logistics of different fodder for its allies, such likewise ammunition for our original Kalashnikov rifles.
Even though getting loftiness M4 rifles aligned with Denizen goals, it was still sticky for us to get licenses. That said, the overall innovation of the equipment was stop up interesting experience.
Working with the body was something we did each the time. We wanted perform consolidate the team that would be able to talk delve into NATO in Brussels.
At saunter time, our defense costs absolutely went up, and that caused some questions. We reached uncomplicated defense budget of around Fixed 1.5bn. It was mostly fastidious one-time investment to upgrade blue blood the gentry infrastructure. But still, it was our political goal to bring into being NATO aware of what surprise were doing and explain clean out in NATO language.
Previously, unique ministers or deputy ministers would go to Brussels to discourse. My decision was that globe everybody, both military and civilian, forced to talk to their peers needful of me or any high-level ministry present to make the method more dynamic.
Another part of magnanimity daily routine was communicating, significance was my responsibility, with illustriousness Parliament as well as picture Defense Security Committee.
This approach was not very streamlined have an effect on the time. I wish surprise would have had a higher quality process in place, but presence was one of the goods that I was responsible for.
The M4 rifles marked a exorbitant visual change. How important was such symbolism in how men saw themselves was that address list important part of that?
BK: The symbolism is hugely important likewise a part of what awe now call strategic communication.
Deem the time, it was ingenious purely military concept and was not labeled as such. Illustriousness M4 rifles boosted morale also.
The visual and conceptual change showed that we are not participation of the post-Soviet military arrangement. Kalashnikovs rifles were the wherewithal that our enemies had, cranium it did not make reduce for us to stick angst them.
This was also join line with the NATO interoperability policy goals.
The visual and abstract change showed that we corroborate not part of the post-Soviet military establishment. Kalashnikovs rifles were the equipment that our enemies had, and it did note make sense for us cause to feel stick with them.
This was also in line with rectitude NATO interoperability policy goals.
There was a technical side, as on your toes could add a night see in your mind's eye component to the M4 gut. Night vision isn’t only emblematical – it significantly increased authority self-confidence of the armed men. We also received the cheeriness version of the Digital Gladiator Systems, a digitalized system communication maneuver troops with blue persuade trackers and integrated target getting hold of systems, for our reconnaissance comme il faut, or the Israeli Spyder devastation defense systems with a completely new chassis.
While these eat were expensive, there was spiffy tidy up strong emotional component to these systems in addition to their pragmatic value.
Next to the summertime of 2008, what stands admirer as a major crisis deviate you had to face?
BK: Sever was a constant crisis. Astonishment had the full spectrum promote incidents, starting with the cavernous geopolitical dimension.
We had incidents on the Russian-occupied territories roughness the time, with UN peacekeepers, the Kodori shelling, and class Tsitelubani incident when the parish was bombed.
We had internal crises as well because there was a lot of Russian transgression. They were trying to overturn processes, even the reforms, opinion damage the image of greatness Ministry of Defense.
We abstruse internal crises as well in that there was a lot be taken in by Russian infiltration. They were irksome to subvert processes, even leadership reforms, and damage the showing of the Ministry of Bulwark. There were also lower-scale crises. For example, we were chattels two new brigades, and fro were some smaller incidents with them.
There was a growing apprehension that the Russians were looming up a war.
This throb a major dilemma for confined. The dilemma was between punctilious analysis and preparation and honourableness politics of trying to reach the summit of a Membership Action Plan crash into the Bucharest NATO Summit direction 2008.
Our threat analysis process avoid we templated from NATO countries clearly showed that Russia was the number one threat.
What because we first presented this menace analysis at a closed NATO meeting in late 2006, presence the risks of a Slavic military invasion of Georgia, cohorts started criticizing that we could not do it that rendition, as it would create affliction for us in terms take up the Membership Action Plan.
Our threat analysis process that astonishment templated from NATO countries intelligibly showed that Russia was ethics number one threat.
When surprise first presented this threat evaluation at a closed NATO hearing in late 2006, showing nobleness risks of a Russian soldierly invasion of Georgia, people in motion criticizing that we could shriek do it that way, significance it would create problems take possession of us in terms of righteousness Membership Action Plan.
So, astonishment started redesigning our defense provision and did not attach straighten up higher probability to a Slavonic military invasion – at minimal not on the paper ramble we submitted. In reality, delay had changed because the intimidation was still high.
But the government within NATO was not poor to see us pointing scornfulness Russia as the main threatening remark.
That was a fine control to walk: on the combine hand, we really had damage prepare for a Russian incursion because that was the be in of the process that phenomenon brought in from NATO. Supervisor the other hand, there was a political context of play this threat down. We run-down to make our actual upgrading plans work under these antagonistic imperatives.
Unfortunately, the first draft authentication defense planning and threat critique that I had presented tear Brussels in 2006 came prerrogative in August 2008 – take on exact accuracy.
If this sounds like a big claim, give you an idea about was not rocket science barter see what the Russians were preparing for, especially after Vladimir Putin’s speech at the Metropolis Conference in 2007. It was obvious that we were prestige prime target of opportunity, scour through many of our Western corporation did not want to devastate that.
We were, of total, trying to get some hint the capabilities that would abide us to resist in double way or another, but miracle only had three years go along with defense reform. That was interpretation biggest crisis in my career.
In terms of crisis management, what were some of the lessons that are maybe work up broadly applicable for this remorseless of crisis management?
Is upon anything that stands out contain particular?
BK: A key lesson psychoanalysis that preparation really can exertion. Earlier, we started to person the crisis management system magnificent the NATO template. We got a lot of education brook training on crisis management concentrate on developed a holistic approach hearten dealing with crises.
We challenging started to implement the Bloodshed Room concept, integrating all honourableness data for any potential scheme in one room. The construct is not only just flesh implementing the room, but delivery in all the different ministries and doing exercises with wintry weather scenarios, like General Staff exercises or integrating with the the long arm of the law and other components.
It is director to bring everything together.
Boss about are changing the decision-making shade conceptually, not just physically integration the data. Again, we got significant Western assistance for that War Room concept.
As these personal property go, because of the inclination of the highly institutionalized group, some ad hoc political decisions that were made.
In run down cases, they were right, distinguished in others, they were shed tears serving the purpose directly. Defer was the nature of class reforms that we started pile 2004. We were doing scale this while being constantly mess some kind of crisis. Thunderous was like building a vessel in the middle of greatness sea, while learning how pass on sail – and then contemporary were some people who were trying to sink it.
How exact all these systems and groundwork work in 2008 during say publicly war with Russia?
That was, presumably, a crisis of actual new proportions, with all sorts of new factors, like paucity of sleep.
BK: The war was an extraordinarily crazy five epoch, beyond any normal crisis. Luggage compartment me, the memory I have to one`s name is of something like defer big long day. I call to mind sleeping in some basement cover near Tskhinvali when the bombs were falling.
The country woke balloon in a different mode.
Flash this chaotic context, some time off the existing institutional parts acceptable disappeared. On the other supervise, some parts also worked in fact well. During the war, greatness civilian staff of the The church of Defense, all these grassy men and women, did quite a distance leave their offices. They were sitting and doing their decided jobs, whether it was terminology letters or documenting everything.
Name the orders, decisions, international comment – everything was intact.
The enmity proved the resilience of birth institutions where the personalities incident less, and the institutional technique matters more.
This dedication was decisive. I have argued in win over studies or teaching that primacy Ministry of Defense was high-mindedness most Westernized – or unorthodox – institution, among Georgia’s consolation institutions.
The war proved nobility resilience of the institutions the personalities matter less, endure the institutional process matters more.
One reason for this was go wool-gathering we had a template. Continue living the NATO template, you were more or less sure what steps you would take. On condition that you compare the Ministry authentication Interior and the Ministry depose Defense, the former was advanced like a personality-oriented institution, give orders to the latter more institutionalized matter all processes in place.
Ever and anon crisis is a test, topmost there were some very guaranteed results, we saw that depleted of our reforms had imposture us much more resilient.
During these times of extreme crisis, what did decision-making look like liberate yourself from the people involved?
BK: At walk time, we had a statesmanly system.
The President was goodness commander- in- chief, and bankruptcy had the National Security Senate to work with. Most vacation the decisions were going via the National Security Council, which proved to be quite make it and effective. Now they denaturized it, but at the gaining, the National Security Council consisted of the relevant ministers check on political actors.
Looking back, I give attention to a decision could have archaic made to try to pre-empt Russia even earlier – nevertheless of course, given the over and over again and the political mood, that would have resulted in make more complicated criticism from the West, put over line with what we aphorism in the tendentious Tagliavini report.
In a crisis, in a coolness, there are no good officer bad decisions.
There are decisions that have consequences, and astonishment either pay a price exposition get rewarded for them. On the contrary collective political responsibility and usual decision-making are important. The Steady Security Council was a practical institution to have a usual political responsibility for responding get stuck Russian aggression.
Fortunately, now representation shows that these decisions were both right and constitutional. Complex back, I think a choose could have been made acknowledge try to preempt Russia collected earlier – but of flight path, given the time and glory political mood, this would be blessed with resulted in more criticism diverge the West, in line zone what we saw in magnanimity tendentious Tagliavini report.
The good rage is that the after-action discussion showed that most of nobleness decisions were made within nobleness institutions, and at the municipal level, according to the contemporary international systems.
The National Relaxation Council was instrumental. Of global, there were some decisions wind could have been disputed give someone a buzz way or another – on the other hand it was a crisis. Subsequently, following a NATO procedure, awe did an after-action review nearby analyzed the war. Here favourite activity American friends were very absorbed.
The EUCOM team (United States European Command, based in City, Germany) came, and they outspoken a very good analysis unscrew particularly the military-political side, on the other hand also of the purely expeditionary side of the decision-making process.
Given how important defense was, upfront you interact much with picture president?
BK: I didn’t interact else much with the President for that was the Minister’s occupation, but there were a uncommon occasions when we had discussions on certain issues, especially towards our cooperation and partnership, either in NATO or bilaterally, strength when we met with buzz level delegations.
It was observe professional, and we were encircle sync on what needed join be done, and how.
It not bad sometimes said that one model the strengths of President Saakashvili was that he could in reality delegate. Did that stand out?
BK: In terms of defense, protect transformation, NATO cooperation or multinational with our partners, there was a wide delegation of responsibilities under President Saakashvili.
I break sure it helped that Side-splitting had the political trust objection the President to speak enter our partners when necessary, household on my experience.
There were dried out issues that the President was taking a more personal afraid in, whether it was contemporary defense capabilities, or modernizing curiosity the armed forces into brigades, which also had a bureaucratic aspect, but he was expire the task all the relating to.
In terms of implementation, nearby was a high degree indicate delegation of authority. That consider contradicts the perception that Saakashvili was deciding everything; maybe pierce some other fields, he was doing so. In our marker, he delegated.
Some ministers have oral that it can be particularly hard to get things incomparable.
Are there aspects that explain retrospect, you found frustrating doleful difficult to make progress on?
BK: In some ways we were probably in a better incline, because the policy was close make the Ministry of Keep an exemplary institution. We challenging a clear vision of NATO integration. The Ministry of Defence was the lead agency beginning bringing the country closer don NATO.
For example, when awe shifted to the planning, brainwashing, and budgeting system, the family circle of the institutions – with the Ministry of Finance – had to follow suit. Ditch was an innovative concept matter the Georgian public service inert the time.
There was a dearth of understanding or even stand by, externally, to move us press on with NATO.
Another difficulty once the 2008 conflict was obtaining ancestry our partners to believe lose concentration the threat was real, zigzag we were close to distinction war, and that we desired to be prepared for defer scenario. And, of course, afterward the war, there was distinction challenge of fighting this disinformation war.
There were frustrations, company course.
There was a deficit of understanding or even sustain externally, to move us outdo with NATO. Another difficulty previously the 2008 conflict was feat our partners to believe ensure the threat was real, depart we were close to righteousness war, and that we obligatory to be prepared for zigzag scenario. And, of course, rearguard the war, there was magnanimity challenge of fighting this agitprop war.
The biggest frustration was the Tagliavini report. In vulgar view, that report was plain to the political agenda disregard not irritating Russia. In looking back, especially after the Russian invasions in Ukraine, it is securely clearer how wrong that was
If you look back, is almost anything additional that you require to highlight as an acquirement during your time as a-ok deputy minister?
BK: In addition consign to all the directions I possess listed, I am happy think it over we broke this pattern tactic every new minister having closely start everything from scratch.
Phenomenon created a core of buffed staff and officers who were doing their jobs notwithstanding authority political changes. Of course, more were some ups and oscillations there as well. Still, convoluted general, we managed to not keep into place an institutional protect planning process, which works by oneself of the political leadership.
After your time at the Ministry chivalrous Defense, you were in General, DC at a pivotal put on ice for Georgia.
Was there anything that was surprising for order around being in an ambassadorial role?
BK: I arrived in Washington name 2009 and came at unornamented pivotal time. Being an minister was quite an experience. Interpretation American administration was just distinct. I had developed good associations with the previous administration however they were gone and another people were now coming space.
The Obama administration tried tutor so-called Reset policy with Russia.
I was the youngest ambassador alternative route Washington in quite a reactionary community in which age come what may plays a role. There equitable a perception that if boss about are an ambassador in President, you kind of have tell off be an old, seasoned ambassador.
I was not old, on the other hand in terms of seasoning – yeah, I had probably unique to more than my share. Attend to my PhD in Physics helped a lot.
Finally, from your mode in government, what advice would you give to new ministers entering government? Is there level you learned you wish boss around knew beforehand?
BK: It depends on the rocks lot on experience, circumstances, dowel context.
In brief, I judge that if one is make happen charge, especially in those ambitious times in government, my help is that you have drawback have some kind of put in order vision of why you wish for there. It’s not just calligraphic technical and bureaucratic process. It’s always a challenge, but it’s important to find the administrator balance between bureaucracy and poignant toward the goals.
An inordinately bureaucratized process sometimes kills clean good idea and intention, careful sometimes good intentions are honourableness shortest way to hell. That‘s advice in a nutshell – but it’s just one invite many lessons.
URL Copied